Abstract. This article is an edited transcription of two conversations at Birkbeck College, London, in February 1987. Its primary concern is a transdisciplinary consciousness that refuses to comply with the tendency toward reductionism and simplification. Some of the problems the dialogue explores are (1) the notion of order (with particular reference to Bohm's recent reflections on the concept of the generative order), (2) the limits of knowledge and the concept of the Absolute, (3) the nature of perceptive or intuitive reason, (4) the relation between matter and mind, and (5) the contemporary global crisis and the possibility of creative evolution.